Comments on: Maris Sants: Homophobia forced me out of Latvia http://allaboutlatvia.com/article/677/maris-sants-homophobia-forced-me-out-of-latvia/ Serpentine Percipience Fri, 23 Dec 2011 20:29:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Aleks http://allaboutlatvia.com/article/677/maris-sants-homophobia-forced-me-out-of-latvia/comment-page-1/#comment-1998 Aleks Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:56:57 +0000 http://allaboutlatvia.com/?p=677#comment-1998 P.S. I <a href="http://allaboutlatvia.com/article/508/another-week-another-pride/" rel="nofollow">wrote</a> about nopride.lv back in 2007. P.S. I wrote about nopride.lv back in 2007.

]]> By: Aleks http://allaboutlatvia.com/article/677/maris-sants-homophobia-forced-me-out-of-latvia/comment-page-1/#comment-1996 Aleks Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:49:35 +0000 http://allaboutlatvia.com/?p=677#comment-1996 It seems to me though gay prides - celebratory, sexually-charged - as Latvians saw them on TV probably would not become part of the culture here, I suspect. Latvians are generally reserved and introverted. Some people say that Latvians are even very private individuals, more so than, say, people from warmer climates. And, also, I don't think Dean was encouraging or even condoning violence by the anti-pride group. It's not an either-or proposition. It is not if you criticize gay movement, or challenge what, say, Mozaika stand for, you ultimately condone and endorse the behavior of the anti-pride movement. What happened to Maris Sants is not okay, but, ultimately, the decision to leave was his own. It seems to me though gay prides – celebratory, sexually-charged – as Latvians saw them on TV probably would not become part of the culture here, I suspect. Latvians are generally reserved and introverted. Some people say that Latvians are even very private individuals, more so than, say, people from warmer climates.

And, also, I don’t think Dean was encouraging or even condoning violence by the anti-pride group. It’s not an either-or proposition. It is not if you criticize gay movement, or challenge what, say, Mozaika stand for, you ultimately condone and endorse the behavior of the anti-pride movement.

What happened to Maris Sants is not okay, but, ultimately, the decision to leave was his own.

]]> By: Tom Schmit http://allaboutlatvia.com/article/677/maris-sants-homophobia-forced-me-out-of-latvia/comment-page-1/#comment-1995 Tom Schmit Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:59:44 +0000 http://allaboutlatvia.com/?p=677#comment-1995 Dean, Gay clubs in Riga are, though, marginalized and stigmatized. By making this into a big secret (forcing people to stay silent) we then force their behaviour into the dark corners and reinforce a belief that it is, in fact, wrong. Gay behaviour is not wrong. I have been to enough drunken pilsetas svetki here in beautiful LV to know that gays do not have any sort of lock on off colour behaviour. In fact I would rather a bit of flaming good fun, then drunken follies. Mosaic and the other orgs in Latvia have never been the violent ones, the anti-praid ones have. Simply looking for an acknowledgment of rights by govt and society is not violent and aggressive. Clear this up for me- how is it not homophobic to say that the rights afforded to heterosexuals, should not be enjoyed by homosexuals? People in the anti-praid movement don't say "okay, all in good time" they say "never". Is what happened to Mris Sants okay? Is being pushed out because of irrelevant sexuality okay? You still seem to circle back to "he brought it on himself." Might lead one to think that LV should never have reasserted independence- after all that would be trodding on the "rights" of people not to discuss freedom. Dean,

Gay clubs in Riga are, though, marginalized and stigmatized. By making this into a big secret (forcing people to stay silent) we then force their behaviour into the dark corners and reinforce a belief that it is, in fact, wrong. Gay behaviour is not wrong.

I have been to enough drunken pilsetas svetki here in beautiful LV to know that gays do not have any sort of lock on off colour behaviour. In fact I would rather a bit of flaming good fun, then drunken follies.

Mosaic and the other orgs in Latvia have never been the violent ones, the anti-praid ones have. Simply looking for an acknowledgment of rights by govt and society is not violent and aggressive.

Clear this up for me- how is it not homophobic to say that the rights afforded to heterosexuals, should not be enjoyed by homosexuals? People in the anti-praid movement don’t say “okay, all in good time” they say “never”.

Is what happened to Mris Sants okay? Is being pushed out because of irrelevant sexuality okay? You still seem to circle back to “he brought it on himself.” Might lead one to think that LV should never have reasserted independence- after all that would be trodding on the “rights” of people not to discuss freedom.

]]> By: Dean Strautins http://allaboutlatvia.com/article/677/maris-sants-homophobia-forced-me-out-of-latvia/comment-page-1/#comment-1994 Dean Strautins Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:51:56 +0000 http://allaboutlatvia.com/?p=677#comment-1994 The key point to your argument above to me seems to be How Should The Gay Rights Movement in Latvia Proceed to Achieve Success? You are right to point out that gay clubs in Latvia do not get attacked and shut down. The problem in Latvia appears to be with the Gay Parades. We have all seen on TV how sexually they can become. Why should the rights of people that don't want Gay Parades be ignored? (just because it is law) Why can't the Gay Rights movement be less aggressive with the tools it uses to assert its rights? (Show some consideration) It is surprising to me that it is not more obvious to Maris Sants that he was associated with an organisation forcing its rights on the populace of Latvia. This resulted in aggression towards him that the Gay Parades provoked. You have to get more realistic and be considerate of the people of Latvia to be given consideration. Ranting about your rights and then perverting your rights through a sexual parade does not make the Gay Rights movement in Latvia look like they seriously want acceptance. I think the people of Latvia see the Gay Rights movement in Latvia as an organisation that wants to fight and be aggressive. Of course I could be wrong but I don't think I am as i see too many debates on this topic confusing the issues and people are too quick to throw the Homophobic accussation that just kills discussion. The key point to your argument above to me seems to be How Should The Gay Rights Movement in Latvia Proceed to Achieve Success?
You are right to point out that gay clubs in Latvia do not get attacked and shut down.
The problem in Latvia appears to be with the Gay Parades. We have all seen on TV how sexually they can become. Why should the rights of people that don’t want Gay Parades be ignored? (just because it is law)
Why can’t the Gay Rights movement be less aggressive with the tools it uses to assert its rights? (Show some consideration)
It is surprising to me that it is not more obvious to Maris Sants that he was associated with an organisation forcing its rights on the populace of Latvia. This resulted in aggression towards him that the Gay Parades provoked.
You have to get more realistic and be considerate of the people of Latvia to be given consideration. Ranting about your rights and then perverting your rights through a sexual parade does not make the Gay Rights movement in Latvia look like they seriously want acceptance. I think the people of Latvia see the Gay Rights movement in Latvia as an organisation that wants to fight and be aggressive.

Of course I could be wrong but I don’t think I am as i see too many debates on this topic confusing the issues and people are too quick to throw the Homophobic accussation that just kills discussion.

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